god, You and Mr. Whatshisname
Everyone knows who god is. To some it’s God but to the rest of us it’s god. Proper name or not, it’s the same thing, a magic man who made everything. God, the catchall for stopping rational thought. You don’t have to keep reading.
You know who “you” is. It’s the thing behind your eyes, between your ears, able to smell and taste things just below where you live. Yes, YOU, the bag of particles that is at the center of the universe.
Mr. Whatshisname is the catalyst for the introduction of the topic of divine intervention. It’s someone who is sick or in need of something.
“If you do pray just don’t tell me about it. I won’t be in the least bit grateful.”
I laughed a proud laugh when I heard my dad say this yesterday. This is what I have been waiting to hear for a long time. When you have 10 minutes of energy at a time, you really shouldn’t have to be subjected to listening to nonsense for any of it. The person he was talking to accepted the request to move on to something else, which is very rare let me tell you.
I’m an atheist. Up until about a week ago I would have considered myself a slightly confrontational atheist. Having been on the receiving end of the same prayer nonsense for Mr. Whatshisname my brain is telling me that it’s time to become a militant atheist. I have to. Reconciling the dissonance between reality and god for other people is futile and a waste of my time. Worse is their unwillingness to not use brain cancer as a way to channel their agenda into my awareness; this is a waste of my time, it’s ignorant and since it creates suffering in me, it’s immoral.
They know I don’t believe yet they tell me anyway asking me not to get offended. “I hope you don’t get offended but I’m going to remind you that your father is dying by telling you I talked to myself about him.” Okay, spend your time whispering. It doesn’t impact me. But when you drive it into my consciousness I’m now going to tell you to fuck off because you’re acting like a child both in terms of the ignorant things you believe and the savagely ignorant way you conduct yourself. When your cancer comes considering looking at it as a punishment for these types of things because you caused it with your self-righteous anti-science religious agenda.
Idiots, all of them, throughout time and now still.
In the event you don’t understand why you are stupid or immoral for telling me about your prayers simply because someone I know has a brain tumor I’m explain.
My dad has a brain tumor. It happens to people as they get older because the body slows down the fight, recovery and repair of all the stuff that goes wrong or happens to the it. The science here is very sounds. There’s nothing they can really do to fix it, that is clear from the MRI.
We’re all kind of sad about it because we all like each other a lot. We’re a tight family and we’ve been able to get to know and really like each other.
The tumor doesn’t believe in god, the family doesn’t believe in god. Most of the family friends do not believe in god. We are aware enough of the world around us, the science that explains most of the mysteries of the world to realize that we were not created and that life, while special, is a natural bi-product of the certain particles and a lot of time to stew. We are friends with atheists because we like hanging around normal people.
We’re godlessly content in our understanding of the world, the universe and death.
What the self-chatter has to say about cancer, my health, etc… doesn’t have any impact on the situation and since me and the family don’t believe in god or religion, telling us about it is being disrespectful. As an atheist I know the moral wrong of boring people with bullshit they do not want to listen to during their dying days. Prayer-tellers don’t understand it because they have no internal morality. They cannot feel the wrong they are doing because god is their proxy for the moral decision making process. When the locus of control falls outside ones body a clear distinction needs to be made between them and us. We make our luck through hard work, by trying to honor the lessons of our parents and to try to prevent that horrible feeling we get when we treat someone poorly. They make their luck by breathy whispering to a magic man in the sky with no regard to the horrible things they do to the people on the planet. My side will get things done, the other side just needs to get out of our way.
January 11th, 2012 07:55
I apologize for doing exactly what you have referenced in your post Patrick…..but believe me when I say I surely never meant any disrespect to you OR your family by saying I wanted to pray for you all. I find comfort in prayer. If you are atheist then my desire to pray should have no effect on you one way or the other. I can respect your right to “not believe” as much as I can respect other peoples (including my own) “to believe”. I don’t feel it necessary to belittle or rant against others’ belief systems. I wasn’t invading your space with a hands on prayer session….I was saying I was going to do so privately in my own life. No intrusion or direct impact on you….you don’t know me outside of the typed word so I surely can not have a major impact in your life.
You say…..that because I believe “When your cancer comes considering looking at it as a punishment for these types of things because you caused it with your self-righteous anti-science religious agenda.”…and yet because you & your family don’t believe your dad’s cancer is ” It happens to people as they get older because the body slows down the fight, recovery and repair of all the stuff that goes wrong or happens to the it. The science here is very sounds. There’s nothing they can really do to fix it, that is clear from the MRI.”
Amazing that in your mind the same illness comes from two different places based on a person’s belief. So in my case it’s a punishment and your situation is unfortunate but a natural progression of things for some people. Very hateful.
I am sorry about your family’s situation…I would never wish on anyone what you are all going through.
I am also sorry your world is so small because you can’t accept that not everyone is going to think like you, or agree with you and that with us being human we are bound to do things that make you feel frustrated and uncomfortable because it doesn’t jive with how you perceive things.
Mostly I am sorry for the offer of prayer and offending your sensibilities. I am sure my response to your post won’t see the light of day but I have said what I wanted too.
Take care Patrick…..I wish you & yours well.
Lisa
January 11th, 2012 08:39
This is wonderful Lisa! Thank you for posting it!
If you read this blog at all you’ve realized that I will post any narcissist’s rant (my own or others) to expose nonsense, troubled problem solving, and antiquated beliefs.
Yours is above.
You’ve read my blog, so you are in more of a position to tell me how small my world is and how my thought patterns are hateful and belittling. I know very little about you so I can only assume you are more worldly, more educated and more entitled to know what’s appropriate for me and my life. Assuming you are an expert is all I can do when I have nothing to vet you on.
When one reply in moments, emotionally about to blog like today’s, I’m not certain they’ve got the judgment to be considered an expert on me.
Just saying Lisa.
January 11th, 2012 09:14
I have never met your father, but I have met you, and I know your brother well enough to offer him my house to stay in when he travels south of the border with a car full of guitars and whisky.
When I learned of your father’s fight, it was difficult for me to find the appropriate words of comfort, as we share many of the same views of this world we share. Your brother and I have spoken of these topics late into the night, after the music finally died down, and real, heartfelt talks swirled like smoke tendrils around the table.
I feel the pain for your family, and I am sure some asshat will state that feeling that pain is not consistant with the atheist’s views of comfort and love as purely chemical reactions, but the truth is we still care about the people we care about, regardless of whether or not those feelings supposedly come from a magical deity in the sky.
The truth is, my feelings of love, comfort, hatred and ire do not come from, nor are they excused by or levied against others behind the veil of a collection plate- and the implied sanctity of a dwelling in which some mythical creature visits when the time permits, or when the pot of gold is full enough.
My thoughts are with your family. Not someone else’s rented thoughts from within the stained-glass factory of bullshit and scare tactics.
My own thoughts are with you and D and the rest of the family.
I found this a few years ago when confronted with a similar situation, and I felt that this doctor hit it on the head. I can hope that some of your father’s colleagues, friends, and well-wishers can borrow some of this knowledge, and give your father and your family their own comfort.
Not whathisname’s
~k
***************
Comfort for the dying Atheist
As a physician I have seen my fair share of death and dying. Unlike the death scenes we see in movies death is often a prolonged and agonizing process. Could there be any stronger evidence for the lack of a loving or merciful God? Every hospital I’ve worked in, even the most secular of institutions, has a chaplain or other clergyman standing by to comfort the dying person and his or her family. These clergymen are almost invariably Christians who come to the deathbed armed with the purportedly priceless gifts of salvation and eternal life. Is it any wonder that the Church grows richer every year? But what does the Atheist have to offer a colleague or a friend who is about to die? Perhaps more than one might think.
1). A hand to hold. Not just any hand but a hand connected to a brain that thinks rationally.
2). A reality check. Cognition and memory tend to fade in our final hours and the resulting confusion can be frightening. Remind your friend that ghosts, goblins, ghouls, devils, purgatory, hell, and other bizarre figments of religious mythology do not exist. Reassure your friend that Christian threats of eternal punishment are both primitive and absurd.
3). Immortality. The Atheistic belief that we cease to exist at the moment of death is almost certainly true. But in the greater scheme of things we do, in a manner of speaking, have the opportunity to live on after death. If our ideas and actions have advanced humanity, even in a small way, then a part of us does live on. Remind your dad of this fact.
4) Peace and tranquility Clergymen and evangelicals know that there is no better place to proselytize than the deathbed. But for the Atheist the same unwanted appeals to savage thinking that have always been annoying may be unbearable in the final hours. Screen visitors and politely but firmly insist, No, your dad does not want to hear about Jesus.
5) Gratitude. The Atheist who gives to Atheistic, free thought, and other rational organizations has changed the world for the better. Unlike the individual who leaves money to a Christian church in a misguided attempt to buy salvation, the Atheist expects nothing in return. Thank the dying Atheist for this unselfish act and for helping to make the world a better place for future generations
January 11th, 2012 09:39
You are right Patrick……I reacted emotionally and judged you according to how what you wrote made me feel…..for that I will apologize…..I am not an expert on you, or anyone else……so I should have re-thought what I was posting as I am sure I could have said it softer if I had withdrawn my emotional reaction to it.
The only person I know is me….and what my intents are….my intent was certainly not to come across as EXACTLY the type of Christian you are writing about or the self righteous person I am appearing to be from this one reactive response to your post.
Anyways, with that said let’s agree to disagree…..and let it go at that. Nothing I say or do has any baring on you & your life experiences and I certainly shouldn’t allow what you say and write have any affect on mine. We don’t even know one another.
I think because Kate is one of my best friends I have gotten to feel like I know you by extension which is obviously a mistake because I have way overstepped the boundaries. Another apology given for that mis-step.
Take care
January 13th, 2012 04:47
American Atheist, thank you for your post and the words from an atheist physician. It’s hard to look at my dad and feel much other than gratitude and some sadness. I’m grateful for the time and the love he has given me and the family, and for having had the chance to be a son to someone I have learned to truly admire.
There are nights and songs in these experiences and I’m looking forward to hearing what Des comes-up with, and having a few drinks with you all the next time you head north!
Pat
January 13th, 2012 05:15
Hi Lisa,
I appreciate the apology! I believe that you were not intending any harm and you may have reacted more emotionally out of concern for having done something you didn’t intended to do. I appreciate that more actually because it’s sort like the kind of thing I would do.
>Nothing I say or do has any baring on you & your life experiences and I certainly shouldn’t allow what you say and write have any affect on mine.
Any time someone injects religion into my life, it has baring. I have to tell it like it is to get them to stop. Their stuff isn’t harmless to people who don’t believe it. You should allow yourself to be affected by my words because you’ll learn nothing from any experience if you aren’t willing to let the information in. Without change there can be no progress.
You could have said it softer or not at all which is what people like me actually want. The post was to tell people who may be thinking that their prayers are welcome in my life that they are no longer welcome. I’ve never understood why this bothers people so much.
There’s a good chance that you’ll improve the quality of your friendships with atheists if you really take the time to consider your actions here and your replies to my words. If you really have the intention of wanting to help, open yourself up to the fact that not everyone holds religion and god in a high regard and when they are at their lowest they really don’t need or want to hear this stuff. This doesn’t make your views wrong, it just makes them irrelevant to that person.
My error in this is that I wasn’t more clear about being an atheist and what this means to me.
Thanks for reading and posting!
Pat